Forever Untitled

I'm not even sure what to title this post because it just makes me tired to even think about it.

So I was talking to my mom this morning and she told me that she had talked to her pastor about the problems I have with Noah's ark. You know, the fact that there was no vegetation for the hervivores to eat and no meat for the carnivores to eat when they all got off the boat. So she talked to pastor James about this, and here's basically what he said:

God handled it. Humans aren't meant to understand how these things get done. He promised he would take care of everything and he did.

So you're telling me that's an acceptable excuse? People are just too fucking stupid to understand it? And you're also telling me in the same breath that religion doesn't turn off your brain? I asked her 3 distinct and completely different questions and the answer to each of them was "that's the way god wanted it." OK, so god did it all. There's never any reason for us to ever consider anything ever again because the answer will always be 'god'.

Then of course she goes off onto this diatribe about how I wouldn't say those things if I could just know His true power. And she starts telling me a story about when I was growing up. Now I've heard this story before and it usually changes in the details. However, it goes something like this.

Story:
When you were growing up and your dad and I split up, we didn't have much money. I sat at the table one night and did the math and we didn't have enough money to pay our bills. I just didn't make enough. So I pushed the bills to the middle of the table and told god I was going to put it all in his hands. I wasn't going to worry about it one bit. I would trust him to get us through this. And you know what? He did. Every month all of our bills got paid and to this day I still have no idea how. That's the power of the Lord.
End Story... believe me.

Ok, so after hearing that story, I usually quiz her about the specifics. So that conversation goes something like this...

So you didn't have enough money to pay the bills? You actually did the math and you made say $1,000/mo and our bills were like $1200/mo... is that the basic proposition we're dealing with here?

Yes, I didn't actually make enough money.

Ok, so where did the extra money come from then?

See, that's the thing... I have no idea. God just gave it to us.

Now, god didn't just put an extra $200 in your account. It had to come from somewhere. Where did the money come from?

I don't know. It just appeared.

No it didn't. Money doesn't just appear. Where did it come from? Did you get another job to bring in more money?

Yes. I went out and got another job.

So the money didn't just appear. You got off your ass and made more money. And you still have no idea where that money came from? Are you serious?

Well, he gave me the job and I have no idea where it came from. He gave it to me.

How did you hear about it?

I answered an ad.

Let me guess... an ad that god put there just for you. And there's no way that ads go up all the time and you just happened to catch this one. How long had you been looking?

Oh, probably for a couple months. But I kept after it and he gave it to me.

So it's not possible in the least that the ad was going up anyway and you caught it because you were looking every day?

Nope. It's too much coincidence.


And of course all of this leads to the question of how you know when god is helping you and when you're doing something on your own. The answer is:
well, when something good happens, it's god helping.

So what about evil... doesn't the devil do good things for you too... to lure you in?

Yes, absolutely. And you have to watch out for that.

But you just said the good stuff was god. Now the good stuff can also be the devil too?

Yes.

So the original question stands with a small alteration. How do you know when it's god or you, or the devil making something happen?

Because god won't ever do anything bad to you.

Ok, that doesn't answer the question at all, but we can go down that road if you like. God allows bad things to happen, right?

Yes. He does it to test you.

Ok. I'll accept that. But does god actually DO anything bad to you?

No. God doesn't actually cause anything bad to happen.

And do you believe that god controls everything or does he just sit back and see how things play out?

He controls everything you do. He has that power.

OK, I'll accept that too. And do you believe that a lie of omission is the same as a spoken lie?

Yeah. If you know something and you don't tell it, then yeah, you're lying about it.

Ok. Good. We agree on that. Now, if you're sitting there watching someone carry a big box and you can see something on the floor in front of them and you can see that there on the same path and they're going to trip and hurt themselves, yet you say nothing and you just let them fall and get really really hurt. But you could've stopped it by just saying, hey dude, look out for that skate. Are you guilty of hurting him through your omission of knowledge you had that could've prevented it?

Well, yeah, I suppose. Because I had the ability to stop him and I didn't.

So the same same as a lie of omission. You're guilty of tripping because you could've easily prevented it and didn't, right? Just like you're guilty if you let your kid play in the middle of the freeway, right?

Yeah, I suppose.

OK, then why is that not true when god just sits back and lets something happen? Isn't he also guilty of tripping you up because he could easily have prevented it? And since he controls everything, didn't he put the skate in your path to begin with? So he's definitely guilty of doing you harm in more ways than just one. Both passively and actively. Because he put the skate there, and then failed to tell you about it.

No, I don't see it that way.

How can you not see it that way? Tell me what's the difference in what you've already agreed to and what god's doing? He kills kids all the time. Innocent kids who never did anything.

He's taking them back to his house where they can be safe. Most of the time it's kids that are in pain for one reason or another and he's relieving that pain.

Pain that he gave them to begin with. He controls everything, and he gave them abusive parents, or burned them, or gave them a disease that's causing their pain. Wouldn't it be more prudent to just not fuck them up to begin with? I mean, ultimately, he's fucked them up and then killed them for it.

Well, for one thing there are far too many people on this planet and it's god's way of population control. He needs to do that somehow.

Like with hurricanes, earthquakes, etc, right?

Yeah, those are all ways god's chosen to provide population control.

But I thought it was a punishment for sinners. Isn't that what you said last time?

Well, it is a punishment for sinners because the wicked shall be punished.

So which is it... population control or a punishment for sinners? And because some asshole across the globe does something horrible like sucking some other guys dick, god's gonna kill a 5yr old girl with leukemia? What the fuck is that about? Do you want to be put to death for someone else's killings?

No, of course not.

OK, then how is it that god punished innocent children for sins they haven't even been around.

Well, that's just god's way and we're not meant to understand it.


OK guys I'm done. I'd like to say, see how hard it is to talk to my mom about all this, but it's no different then talking to any other xtian about this shit. They talk in circles and there's no one ounce of logic to any of it.

Kill me.